Silvio Berlusconi, confession to Libero from the hospital: "Who are Giorgia Meloni and Matteo Salvini for me"

Silvio Berlusconi is in the hospital, at the Madonnina in Milan. But he's fine and wants to talk. He only took a big blow to the hip, with its hematoma, in Zagreb, where he came from and where he participated in the three days of work of the European People's Party, which is increasingly his home.

At the exit, the leader was besieged by a crowd of people. They all wanted to take a selfie with him, which he didn't steal. Push from here, push out of there, the Knight has fallen and has taken a hit, but it has not affected his mood. "For someone accustomed from a lifetime to tripping – he jokes – what do you want a little dent to be …". The leader of Fi in fact continued to work, to the point of granting to Free this interview on the new center-right and its journey in Europe.

From the San Giovanni demonstration that sanctioned the reunification of the center-right onwards, Forza Italia has returned to growth, according to surveys. Do you think your people demanded unity?
"It was only us who claimed the unity of the center-right in every phase, consistent with the commitment made with the voters who in 2018 had given our united coalition a relative majority, which then became an absolute majority in all the elections. regional organizations in which we participated together. On the other hand, the united center-right has existed in Italy for 25 years because we created it, but it exists above all in the hearts of Italians. We have always listened to the voice of that people, now our friends and allies are also listening to it ".

With Matteo Salvini you have had difficult months of mistrust. Is this mistrust definitively overcome?
"With Matteo, in terms of personal relationships, there has never been any distrust, but on the contrary respect and mutual sympathy. This does not mean that we have not shared neither the fact of having held a government with grillini for over a year, nor the votes given by the League to too many bills presented by the five stars, nor to have caused the crisis of the first government Count keeping all the hypotheses open, including a Di Maio government, instead of immediately putting themselves clearly in the perspective of the center-right. But all this belongs to the past, now it seems to me that the collaboration is full, naturally keeping each one of us his own identity and specificity ».

What would you call the center-right 2.0? Center-right Italian, center-right or other?
"I'm not interested in acronyms, it is typical of the left to squabble over these nuances of politicese, I care about the ideas and values ​​that are the basis of our alliance."

If you were a football team, what roles do you see for center-right leaders? What role do you imagine for yourself?
"They are always forced comparisons, but I try to play the game, Salvini is an obvious breakthrough forward, Giorgia Meloni one of those fullbacks who covers the right wing and is able to go that far, on that side, of course I can only do the midfield director. This team has millions of fans, the majority of Italians, and it must conquer others, the one I call "the other Italy": seven million moderates who do not go to the vote but declare themselves liberal and anti-communist ".

For a few weeks it seemed that some center-right parliamentarians were winking at Matteo Renzi, in search of salvation. Do you think the risk of this escape is averted?
"I never believed it: Renzi is the political leader who gave birth to the leftmost government in the history of the republic. He fights against taxes but votes a government and a maneuver that increases, which once again puts his hands in the pockets of the Italians. It really has nothing to do with us. "

What leads, according to her, Renzi to invite Forza Italia MPs to her party and some – a few of her – to really go there?
"For now, no member of Forza Italia has left us to go to Renzi. The only senator who joined the Italia Viva group has never been part of Forza Italia, even though it was hosted in our group. If someone were to do it, and it seems difficult to me, it would be individual choices, which I honestly cannot explain, because they are outside and against the values ​​of Forza Italia and our idea of ​​loyalty with voters. But I have too much respect among our parliamentarians to really believe that someone could fail his and our common history ".

Tell the truth: this government has written exactly the Maneuver that was needed for you to oppose Tax on plastic, on sugary drinks
"The problem is that it has done exactly what it does not need for the country, for our companies, for our young unemployed, for the savings of families. I am not so cynical as to want the disaster for Italy, even if this brought us votes. I hope rather that this process can be reversed as soon as possible with the vote ».

The Minister of Defense Grillina, Elisabetta Trenta, has been at the center of a controversy for not having wanted to leave the service accommodation that had been assigned to her when he was a minister. Did they also get used to the seats and privileges?
"I have never liked going down to this level of controversy. I leave it to the grillini. Of course, for moralists it is a sad end, tearing oneself over moral issues. It demonstrates its ethical and civil depth ".

The European People's Party, the home of the center-right, is the first party in Europe, but the consensus of the nationalist parties is increasing throughout the continent. What are you different from the "sovranisti"?
«In nothing, if by sovereignty we mean the pride in our Judaeo-Christian and Greek-Roman roots, in our Christian religion, in our traditions and in our culture, in our freedom and in our democracy, in the Western civilization to which we belong . But all this defends itself much better not by isolating itself but putting itself together. Our identity is European and Western. Today it is endangered by migratory pressures, by Islamic extremism and above all by the lucid expansionist design of communist China. In the face of all this, we need to combine our forces with a common foreign and defense policy: bringing together all the armed forces of all the countries of the European Union, if each state closes in on itself, if it claims to do it alone, obviously it does not have the strength to withstand these challenges. Moreover, it is precisely nationalisms that have destroyed Europe and its civilization in two devastating world wars. The sovereignty that I like is a European, western sovereignty ».

In the League, the opportunity to join the EPP has been discussed for a long time. The Carroccio alliance at European level with Marine Le Pen has so far not brought good luck: do you think that in the EPP they are willing to start a process of approach with Salvini?
"Obviously I would be pleased if our allies in Italy shared the EPP values, a document of which I was the author, on the occasion of the last revision in 2006. But this seems to me a prospect not of short period. In short, instead, I am working concretely to build a European center-right, breaking the consociational pattern between the popular and the socialist that has so far led Europe, bringing together popular, liberal, conservative and reasonable sovereigns. In this scheme, the League enters by right and indeed it would be among the protagonists ".

Viktor Orban is a friend of his, he was recently his guest in Italy, but he has a critical position with the EPP, from which he was self-suspended. Do you think that crisis is resolved?
«I think that the EPP must know how to collect within itself the demands of which Orban is the bearer. He speaks a different language from mine, but he is certainly a democratic leader and very popular in his country ».

In Zagreb you have elected Donald Tusk president of the EPP and Antonio Tajani vice-president. How will the EPP change?
"The EPP has overcome a very difficult season for Europe, thanks also to the wise guidance of Joseph Daul. Tusk will continue this path with new energy: our aim is not to defend the Europe that exists, but to build the one we would like, that of the founding fathers, who are all in our Pantheon: De Gasperi, Schuman, Adenauer. In this sense Tajani with his experience and authority will make an important contribution. In any case, I will not back down doing my part: today I consider commitment in Europe to be a priority ».

Strasbourg, Brussels and now Zagreb. Do you like your new life as a European parliamentarian?
"More than the life of the MP in itself, I like to have many opportunities to work with my friends at the helm of the EPP parties to achieve the goal of a different Europe. But I want to add one thing: being in Zagreb a few days after the thirtieth anniversary of the fall of the Wall, moved me. Today we can celebrate a congress of the popular in a capital that was part of the communist bloc, an ancient and noble city that for decades has not known freedom and democracy. The capital of a nation like Croatia that has had to pay a heavy price for its freedom and national independence. For those who have known the years of the cold war it is a truly exciting turning point ».

How do you respond to those who (including Carfagna) reproach you for being too much a trailer of the League?
"We are not towing anyone, we are always and without hesitation in the middle of the center-right and we are clearly distinct from our allies, because we proudly represent liberal, Christian, guaranteed, European and Western ideas and values ​​without who do not win and if you win you would not be credible. The differences can be of accents, of underlining, but on these basic concepts I don't think there are any distinctions. On the other hand, no important Forza Italia executive could reasonably question 25 years of coherent history of our movement and, if I may say so, even my personal history ".

Renzi and the Democratic Party are holding hostage to the country?
«The country and even yourself, for pure thirst for armchairs. I think they will pay a very high price for this ».

The Italians regretted having voted Grillo: what have they found us, who knows them well?
«They simply deluded themselves that the right and legitimate disappointment for politics could be satisfied by an irrational but liberating gesture. Unfortunately it is not the first time in the history of peoples that this happens and has often led to tragic consequences. Fortunately, it seems to me that the Italians have noticed it in time, even though my compatriots, I often say with heartbroken love for my country and my fellow citizens, still have to learn to use the weapon of voting well. People can sometimes become their worst enemies ».

by Pietro Senaldi